51³Ô¹Ï

 

Sajjad Malik 00:00

 

There are certain images that will, I guess, stay with me for a very long time. Because those are the images that cannot be forgotten overnight. And these are difficult images.

 

Melissa Fleming 00:13

 

I'm Melissa Fleming from the 51³Ô¹Ï. Welcome to Awake at Night. My colleague Sajjad Malik was heading the Syria operation for UNHCR, the UN Refugee Agency, during the height of the conflict when it was just killing so many people, producing so much devastation. Particularly, really creating so much suffering for Syria¡¯s children. And he describes the situation there so compellingly in this bite-sized episode of Awake at Night.

 

 

Sajjad Malik 01:04

 

There¡¯s death. There¡¯s destruction. There is starvation. There is pain. You see kids recently in Douma, pale skin and rashes on their skin, who have come out from basements and haven¡¯t seen sun for days, for example. These are some of the difficult moments that one goes through that will stay with us.

 

Melissa Fleming 01:32

 

I want to talk about Madaya. This is a town in Syria. This is very close to the Lebanese border. It was besieged for a long time, and you went in there as one of the first in the relief effort when finally, there was an opening. Can you just tell me what you saw and what you witnessed there?

 

Sajjad Malik 02:00

 

Difficult to describe what we saw. It was very difficult besiegement. I¡¯ve seen in Somalia starving kids. I¡¯ve seen because the conflict brings issues like that. But Madaya was children¡­ Starving kids, injured people in hospitals, makeshift hospitals, not enough beds. Blood-stained floors, starving elderly people who had chronic diseases. There were no medicines. The only doctor that I came across himself had a shrapnel in his leg and there were no antibiotics. So, the few that he managed to get, even those were not working on him because he didn¡¯t have enough food intake that could help make his body strong. It was extremely cold. This was winter when we went in. And I remember I had several layers on me and I was still cold. And they were living in dark, no light, rooms with no heating, nothing. Shivering kids. And we were there for several hours inside offloading trucks, loads of blankets and food and medicines, whatever we were able to bring in. And while we were parked in there, of course, they came to our cars and would knock at our cars and very quietly ask for something because the pride was there. They didn¡¯t want to beg for anything. I take photos with my phone when I go out. It¡¯s hard to look back at some of these photos. For that particular mission I had to delete all of them because I couldn¡¯t stand even going back to them.

 

 

Melissa Fleming 04:17

 

You showed me one of those photos when you came out and it was of a family. And actually, the mother instructed the kids to lift their shirts to show you, what?

 

Sajjad Malik 04:31

 

Well, it was starving kids. You could see their ribs. You could see swollen bellies. You could see that they haven¡¯t eaten meals for days. It¡¯s one meal a day and that¡¯s also usually soup, whatever they can get.

 

Melissa Fleming 04:46

 

What did they want you to do with that photograph?

 

Sajjad Malik 04:48

 

They wanted us to go and tell the world that this is what they¡¯re going through. Even the elders got us together and said, ¡®We didn¡¯t deserve this. We didn¡¯t have to go through this.¡¯

 

Melissa Fleming 05:00

 

So, you became in a way their messenger and you took to Twitter. You went to the media.

 

Sajjad Malik 05:07

 

We have to speak out. We have to talk about what¡¯s happening in there. This is not to politicize it. We are humanitarians. This is not the angle that I¡¯m taking. I¡¯m seeing women, children, elderly, boys, girls suffering in there. And it¡¯s my duty to make sure that we talk about it, and then do something about it. Because yes, I went in, and yes, I saw. And we brought food. My worry was, ¡®Then what next now?¡¯ Because we brought in food for the next 14 days, basically. The ration would have lasted for the whole¡­ And then the moment we came out, what we saw, we used that to say, ¡®Next convoy start getting ready now. Start getting the approvals. Start getting the permission to go back in and bring more assistance.¡¯ And that was the pressure we wanted to build again into the system that you give food once doesn¡¯t mean that you don¡¯t eat for the next several weeks. You need food on daily basis. A normal kid would like to eat three-four times a day. And these kids were eating once a day even if that. They¡¯re lucky they get a meal. How long can you survive in those kinds of situations?

 

 

Melissa Fleming 06:26

 

You went into one basement and where many families were taking shelter. What did you see?

 

Sajjad Malik 06:35

 

Well, overcrowding. The size of this room is a luxury where we¡¯re sitting having this discussion. These are basements which were converted into shelters because anything above the ground could be hit. And at night there¡¯s not enough leg room for people to stretch. So, children were allowed to sleep, and the grown-ups and elders would sit because there¡¯s not enough space. Or they sit in corridors. No ventilation because it¡¯s in basement. There¡¯s no sanitation facilities around. And I have not even¡­Difficult to describe even because I could still feel that in my mind it comes.

 

Melissa Fleming 07:34

 

It¡¯s something that you probably had never seen before.

 

Sajjad Malik 07:41

 

No, I did not see this before, and we had heard about that. We have discussed about that. But to physically see that. That was, you know, strong smell, not enough cleanliness around. But these people¡­ Also, not enough water to shower and clean themselves up. And only kids sleeping, and elderly cannot because there¡¯s no leg room. And it was getting overcrowded because more displaced were coming in into those areas.

 

Melissa Fleming 08:18

 

Sajjad, how do you look after yourself after you¡¯ve seen something like that?

 

Sajjad Malik 08:23

 

It¡¯s not me alone who is going through this. I think there¡¯s strong camaraderie amongst colleagues. We come out. We discuss. We talk. We vent it out. But then also there is this relief that you eventually do bring something back to these people. Because ours is seeing it and having that pain. They are going through this pain. They¡¯re living, they¡¯re physically going through that pain. I see that. I smell that. I hear it. And those memories stay with me, and my problem is slightly different than theirs. I think the first and the most important thing is that the relief that we were able to go and see and be able to help them and bring assistance back to them. So that¡¯s a huge mental relief that happens. Then you have to manage your stress as an individual because people handle this differently. As a leader people also expect you to be stronger, and they have to come to me to talk, and discuss, and vent it out. So, there¡¯s not only these issues, but countless other issues. So, you have to have that balance that you remain on solid ground, that you maintain your mental strength and courage. Because it¡¯s fine to say it and reflect and cry if need be. It¡¯s okay. But go to the gym. I read a lot. I watch football games. I love football games, for example. Chelsea is in the Premier League. English Premier League is one that I very closely watch. And then obviously Barcelona and Real Madrid and Juventus. And then read. Whatever keeps you occupied and gets your mind off. Knowing that it¡¯s not hiding. You have to reflect. You still have to digest that information. You have to do something about it. Coming back for your breaks, great deal of help. I come back and I get into home, mowing the lawn, fixing this, cooking food for them, kitchen stuff. And things that need to be fixed in the house. So that keeps my mind away from¡­ And then I get reenergized, and I can go back in. So yeah, various ways of coping.

 

Melissa Fleming 10:50

 

What kind of food do you cook?

 

Sajjad Malik 10:53

 

It¡¯s a lot of Pakistani food. They now have dishes that are very special which are related to my way of cooking, but they know that it¡¯s never consistent. Spices change all the time. When they ask me, ¡®Baba, cook chicken.¡¯ I said, ¡®Which one?¡¯ ¡®The one you cooked the other day. But we don¡¯t know what you put in it¡¯. So, I said, ¡®Okay I¡¯m cooking it today, but you will tell me if it was like the other day or it¡¯s something different.¡¯ So, experimentation and all the rest. But yeah, it¡¯s fun around family and then that helps a lot.

 

Melissa Fleming 11:34

 

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